Dear Ms. DID: Regarding your Altercide – Suicide Post

I received a long comment to my post, Dear Ms. DID: Does Altercide, suicide of an alter, kill the entire system? Rather than leave it as a comment, I would like to address the reader’s points directly.

These include topics from the formation and current thinking of DID, something called government assisted organized stalking, mind control organizations including the CIA, satanic ritual abuse, cutting, healing, and prescription treatment drugs.

Quite a list. Let’s get started.

Who is 3V3NG3LA?

The writer, 3V3NG3LA, has some interesting comments, both supportive and I believe, a little extreme. But they are topics I’d like to think about for a moment.

3V3NG3LA has quite a lot of anger directed at others, apparently due to abuse as a child and the victim of targeted stalking and mind control. In other posts on the internet, this woman (I am assuming this is a woman) repeats much unsubstantiated and somewhat typical conspiracy theory topics. But she also encourages others to heal and fight against the system. And she claims to be abused, let’s explore her message for it’s applicability to the content of my blog.

She does repeat that it is not her intention to be insensitive, which I appreciate. And also that “the more you learn about your condition the better, as i can see you do your research.”

[Note: at 3V3NG3LA’s request, I have corrected some grammar issues with her original post, but have retained all aspects of the quotes otherwise.]

Mind control organizations that are alleged to practice it

She suggests reading about several organizations or concepts involving mind control of some sort (MK ULTRA, the Illuminati, and organizations of satanic ritual abuse). Let’s look at one in particular – you will see that, as with everything, there is a mixture of sad fact, evidence of cover-up of some sort, and then the resultant conspiracy theories.

Let me say here that I take conspiracy theories with a grain of salt. Yes, I believe there is some merit to many of them, but I will not whole-heartedly support something I cannot base in fact (again, those damn engineers!)

So, let’s discuss MK ULTRA, a government-sponsored program started in the 1950’s that used drugs and other materials for mind control manipulation. This was done both covertly, and through voluntary participation of subjects. The involuntary experiments raised concerns with Informed Consent (brought about by the Nuremburg Trials (1947)) following experimentation in Nazi Germany. [I refer the reader to Wikipedia, which provides a good overview for learning about MK ULTRA, and also many links for further investigation. I don’t normally use Wiki’s as a source as it is often unverified, but it is a decent starting point. But the Nuremburg and informed consent stuff is well documented.]

Many experiments were voluntary at a large number of colleges and research organizations and followed informed consent regulations, where the individual is informed exactly what was to happen during the entire experiment. Many of these did involve drugs such as LSD, but at the time, the process used was completely legal AND ALSO COMPLETELY TRANSPARENT TO THE PARTICIPANT.

(As a note, I am a researcher who regularly creates and implements experiments using informed consent – while it is a paperwork burden, individuals are now completely aware of procedures they may undergo, and they are free to end participation at any time. So this is not me talking out my butt.)

Yes, MK ULTRA was a bad phase of the CIA’s history, although conspiracy buffs insist it continues.

3V3NG3LA continues with a few paragraphs on some graphic descriptions of what is alleged to happen within these organizations. I prefer not to repeat these here – suffice it to say that it is a list of bad shit apparently done to both adults and kids for mind control and ritualistic purposes.

But let’s get to the DID stuff, okay?

3V3NG3LA claims that the methods these folks use is “designed to create MPDs and DIDs within people”:

I know how easy it is to slip, shall we say, into a very destructive mind set, especially not even having the privacy of your own thoughts, (I know how that sounds and I would not have believed it myself a couple of years ago if it were not proven to me) (Telepathy) especially when my current experiences, constant surveillance and torments are designed to create, MPD’s and DID’s within people.

Why would an organization would do that? To create the proverbial human killing machine? Or just slaves? And why don’t we know about this, why are there very few court cases? She hints at a reason at The Grand Dame, that self-destructive programming mentioned on that webpage (note this page has no peer reviewed or substantiated references):

The memory codes are deceptively designed to fool the deprogrammer and the victim alike. Part of the reason the programmer does this, is that they know that IF a therapist should stumble onto these first memories, the backup programming to protect these memories is so severe that the therapist will shatter the victim’s mind.

The programmers love to fragment and divide. The epitome of this is how they divide a person’s mind against itself with MPD in order to control that mind.

Well, as an individual with DID, no one can control pieces of my mind because my mind is split. I have USED that split mechanism to survive, but that allowed them to control my body, not my mind. I can believe that in a cult situation, brainwashing does occur, but I have seen no facts linking brainwashing to the specific and intentional creation of DID and alters.

Strangely, perhaps, I can’t figure out if 3V3NG3LA believes in DID or not. Her arguments are somewhat inconsistent.

May I say that considering ones’ self as a system is counter productive to begin with.

You are a human being, and no matter what kind of dehumanization any evil (Sub-human) has forced your mind to shatter in this way, please remember this defense mechanism is mental not physical, so as to question whether or not the death of an “alter” in the physical sense would be suicide, answer’s pretty simple.

Three thoughts here. First, I consider myself several things. Use of the term “system” is somewhat common nomenclature. I agree it is not the best term, but it describes this situation where there are several distinct thought patterns. I tend to refer to myself (collectively) as myselves. It seems a less stark or sterile word. My therapist once likened it to an orchestra with several sections all playing independently, sometimes producing beautiful music and other times, cacophony.

Second, yes, altercide would cause the death of the entire being. I was exploring the idea that some alters apparently do not consider that by killing another alter in the system, that they also kill themselves. It would be a tragic way for a person to die – altercide or internal homicide. Which would, of course, be ruled a suicide.

Third, I have promised to talk about the PHYSICAL as well as the mental aspects of DID. Studies have shown physical changes in the brain. I will follow up with a researched post when I get some additional time. [Ed. note: here it is What’s going on in the brain with DID? Biological markers in DID.]

Regarding alters themselves, I am again unsure her beliefs. And that is okay.

Look you are reaching for reasons to keep “them” around, when you know ‘they’ are you, because you consciously acknowledge that they are you, and because you have done this to yourself as a means of escapism, it is a lot easier then someone who has been programmed.

You can dwell, convince yourself what your doing is helping or a good start would be realizing that you don’t have ‘alters’ YOU have parts of yourself that are terribly damaged, YOU are terribly damaged, and YOU can be fixed.

you will soon realize that if your experience with trauma is now in your past you are very lucky and you CAN heal your mind.

Take comfort in knowing that when you are truly trying to mentally survive, you constantly analyze and re-analyze ways you can bring happiness to your self, and to others.

I appreciate that 3V3NG3LA is supportive of healing, and believes that regardless of the trauma, that we all should try to heal. And that some trauma is much harder to heal from than other trauma.

I am very early in my recovery. I recognize that I have very valuable characteristics in me that happen to be distributed among some very distinct parts of me. It is hard for me to realize this. I don’t choose to keep “them” around – I choose to see what all of me are about, and to get all those parts of me more integrated.

Maybe this is just a matter of semantics. But I have at least one very angry person inside me I do not know. But my friends and family have been exposed to, to unfortunate means. So, your supposition that since I know they are all me, that they are NOT alters, isn’t quite right. But to her credit, 3V3NG3LA does state “i am not trying to be insensitive and although i can not compleatly relate to what you are saying, I do understand.”

Another’s input

I found another post by englishrain and her blog, Delightfully Scattered Thoughts where she talks about Ritual Satanic Abuse (RSA) and how it created a multitude of alters and alter systems inside her. She admits that the concept is controversial, but her story is a much more clearly written account of how DID can be created as a part of SRA, but I didn’t get the idea that the cult SPECIFICALLY pursues DID. It seems to happens as a result of the rituals and methods to bind members to the cult and prevent them from being able to mentally leave.

In her post The Scary Stuff, She does a wonderful job of explaining how and why different alters are created, and in her case, there were series of “mirror” alters – alters who were created for her control, with the counter “dark” alters created for cult control. Interesting stuff, and much more believable when presented first hand by someone who can write clearly and compellingly.

Cutting

First, some of 3V3NG3LA’s comments that involve cutting. She mentions Sybil’s decision not to integrate:

Now her character through years of counseling and what not, she made a conscious choice not to go any further as she decided this survival mechanism worked for her on a psychological coping level about her past.

In saying that if it works for you great, if you are physically hurting yourself, it ain’t.

Here I must disagree, based on simple “cause-and-effect”. Self-injury is the EFFECT of trauma, it is not the CAUSE of the emotional or physical pain. This is a common misconception – that cutting and self-injury are done to further cause pain, and that it is not a valid coping mechanism.

She continues:

STOP FUCKING CUTTING YOURSELF.

As I said before, I know how hard shit gets, but honestly when you truly suffer the last thing you want to do is cause yourself, or anyone else, more pain, as you come to the realization that ANY more pain, is too much pain, be it physical or emotional and is counter productive.

Most of us realize that in every moment you can have peace, in every moment you can enjoy, and in every moment you can be in control, you will, because you are.

Yes, this shit is hard. Yes, I want peace. But peace is not something you can just wish upon yourself. In fact, that’s one way DID gets worse…wall off the pain in a new alter and re-establish peace. Hell, I did that for years.

But, back to your assertion that pain is counterproductive. One major source of relief from self-injury is to RE-ESTABLISH the ability to feel at all. One goal is NOT to cause pain. In fact, it IS a successful coping mechanism in the short term, but admittedly not a good one. Please see more here.

Medicines

3V3NG3LA mentioned meds. In the interests of addressing all her points, I quote her strong thoughts here.

The meds they treat you with (chemicals their testing on you) are deliberately killing your mind.
Mental ward 4 months were they terrorized and OD’ed me to the point i would collapse and forced me to take anti psychotics that had side effects that were fatal.

It’s a big joke my friend. I have been on enough med’s / antidepressants and other shit to know without the reading I’ve done, you can only rectify your mind when your free of all of their poison.

Look, I am not saying stop all your meds, as you probably can’t, and it can be dangerous, but find the truth behind the lies about these drugs and doctors, and when you realize you are poisoning yourself, maybe you can one day take the steps needed to set yourself free.

Strong words. A few comments – some very excellent drugs all have the warning of DEATH in the package insert. It is your obligation as a patient to read that insert. I am currently on a med that has a very serious side effect of death, but I also know the exact warning signs so I can stop before we get there. I have done my research. As you state, others should as well.

I have to be on drugs right now. This post is not the place to explain why. But yes, they do effect both my concentration and my balance and I do not like that. But I can see that I need them to function right now – to be able to work. These drugs have real tradeoffs that we must consider but many save us.

If you were medicated without your consent or will, I am sorry for that. But if you reached a point where you were unsafe to yourself or others, or this was part of the abuse, then I would ask that you don’t trash all drugs outright. Take your own advice and do the research.

I look forward to the day I can be free of drugs. But like cutting, drugs are addressing the symptoms, not the cause.

The underlying cause of all our pain is the original traumas. That/they have caused the mental anguish, the DID, the emotional numbing, the anger, etc. In order to work through those traumas, there is sometimes the need for drugs. Consult a knowledgeable physician and do your research.

In closing

I recognize this post was a little meandering, and that is okay. I appreciate that 3V3NG3LA took the time to read my post and reply with her thoughts and ideas. I agree with some and not others, and that is fine, too.

But I would like to close with a very appropriate recommendation that she made:

And for God’s sake girl, buy a punching bag.

I recently took up boxing and actually did order one online the other day. So, your very timely recommendation made me smile. Thanks.

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7 Comments»

  emilylonelygirl wrote @

[Ed note] 3V3NG3LA is not happy with this post. She was offended I quoted her directly, so I went through and corrected her original spelling and grammar errors. She was also very upset that I did some of my own research on her statements (I even included websites she provided). As this is my blog, it is my right to comment on her comments, and I believe I did it fairly. She does not, as is her right.

Privately, I told her I was saddened at everything she has gone through, and that I hoped that she was able to heal and find outlets for her pain. I still feel that way. There is too much spite and anger in the world. In response, she continues to spam me with volumes of propaganda. Thank god for spam filters.

  parris wrote @

Wow. I’ve begun examining these passages tonight, and when I can concentrate I’d like to make a few rational and hopefully reasonable comments.

But for the moment, could I touch on a couple things I do know about from personal experience? I’ve been known to cut in my time. It produced temporary euphoria and relieved this seemingly intractable anguish.

However, sometimes the cutting was a form of punishment from angry Parts. That”s when pain was added to pain.

I do believe in SRA and mind control; but I cannot begin to sort through the claims. I’ve had alters tell stories that are strikingly similar to what little I’ve read on the internet. I have to be careful, though, because I can be unbelievably naive, and I avoid having my memories tainted. Probably the reason I went years refusing to read articles/books on dissociative disorders. Well, actually, I spent years in denial, so.

Also, I take meds. And they keep me alive. When I feel memories emerging, usually Someone “loses” the Ativan and whatnot. Which I think likely lowers barriers and allows memory leakage. I guess the mind really knows the moment of safety.

On a personal note for Em, it’s remarkable that you have such advanced thinking early in your recovery. It’s a great tribute to your intellect! Not to mention an obviously good heart.

Thanks for allowing us in your blog.

Parris, Etc.

  emilylonelygirl wrote @

Dear Parris

Like you, I have been wary of what I read on the internet, and am still worried that what I read has affected me. I am very concerned about tainted memories as well, so we (me/we and my therapist) have not gone “digging” for memories – we had just explored what came up in flashbacks and dreams. So yes, flashbacks (as you mentioned in a separate comment) are very scaring but valuable. It is good that you do not dig, but intelligent research and reading can be helpful to understand the framework of your healing.

Denial. Yeah, laugh. Me too. Parts of me are STILL in denial, which makes therapy especially interesting (“you are a part of me and the evidence shows all this is real.” “No, this is all some freaky dream, now I feel great, no more need for therapy.”)

And losing the meds – yes! I went completely off the first drug without most of me realizing it was happening!

Sigh. My/our life.

Thank you for the compliment. I am a researcher in a another field, so naturally I just applied it to this field!

Em

  annenco wrote @

Emily & Parris,
I’m so glad to know I’m not the only one who’s been concerned about reading and tainted memories. I always feel like I need to have proof this all existed long before I ever read anything. Sometimes I find in those bouts of denial that I have to take breaks from reading and groups to “test” things out make sure it’s really this way, has always been this way, and not just from reading something. Like when you read to many medical books and end up worried you might have it. *sigh* In the end it always turns out, nope I really am this way and all of this existed long before therapy(no digging here either) and long long before I ever read anything.

“Yes, I want peace. But peace is not something you can just wish upon yourself. In fact, that’s one way DID gets worse…wall off the pain in a new alter and re-establish peace. Hell, I did that for years.”
This…this is nail on the head.

I am so anti-med but, I’m willing to break down and take them if they truly help me. Speaking of should go make sure I take ours (we’ve been off again :S ).

P.S. Ditto great response. Wish I could have my thoughts back together like that. Trying to stay patient.

  emilylonelygirl wrote @

Annenco

I think I should write an entire post on bouts of denial. I am not sure I have read anything professionally about it, but I am finding that I am not alone in this.

And the meds – I changed meds and I am VERY happy on the new one – Lamictal. It was prescribed off-label, but it is working wonderfully for me.

My best
Em

  Ravin wrote @

As a person dealing with the aftermath of being used experimentally as a child, I’d like to say that worry about being ‘tainted’ by the wide-web accounts and such is a serious concern. Also trying to come to grips with memories of this kind of mucking around in our mind is daunting. It’s really hard sifting thru the conspiracy ‘crap’ to find others dealing rationally. You know in an attempt to find coping skills for this kind of fucked up. SRA & mind-control was unbelievable for me then other selves here ‘showed’ me just how real it was for this body. It’s freakish but I do believe it’s real now.No choice really their bleed thru was damn convincing. It’s our own little holocaust so to speak.

The use of the word ‘programed’ or any form of that word is really charged for us. We use the word ‘scripted’ instead. We believe we had the ability to dissociate way before the experiments began, that in fact we were multiple and were picked for use because of that innate ability. I do believe MPD/DID can be played with by professionals, even deliberately created thru trauma. See Dr. Collin Ross’s research and writings.

Why was is done, what was the point? Well the Cold War was huge and psychology was going thru a wave of behavioral science theory. The CIA was as paranoid as the rest of the country about the Red Scare. So yeah I think professionals collaborated, some even abused their power to experiment. I know the doctor that ran our torture spoke with a thick german accent. Was he a Nazi? No idea, but given the way this country has used others to get what they wanted/needed during that time it’s probably true. One has only to look at NASA space race.

It sucks what people can do in the name of “God & Country.” Ravin

  emilylonelygirl wrote @

Hi Ravin

I am sorry to hear your story – it is just something to make you really think you are nuts to dig and keep finding more and more crap. My experience is not as yours was/is – much less traumatic. But I really like your use of the word “scripted” … it doesn’t seem as charged and triggering, but still something that was done to you without your consent.

I agree that we don’t know a lot about what the government has done, and I am also saddened about the stuff that still happens.

I saw a good video the other day from Faith Allen’s blog about DID and organized pedophilia. And while it is not what you are dealing with, it is still along the conspiracy line as far as I am concerned.


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